2012 JAPAN NATIONALS

Twind, I'm joining ostile and ilica in their request for the subs, but I, too, wish you take all the time you need, first -- to fully recover from the flu and to take care of your family We can wait.
And thank you for all your previous work You make watching the videos so much more fun!

It's great you are going to SOI

Meanwhile, I put JN men scores through a stats software and found a couple of interesting things.

What did you find hsuhs?

Fascinating, thank you hsuhs.

Hsuhs, you have very... complicated hobby. It's still New Years Eve here, so I don't feel in form enough to analyze this , but it sounds interesting.

Morozombie at the end of the year ~~ http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-last-postof-2012.html#more

Yes!!! Dai's earth-shattering performance has finally convinced him/her!
...a perfect way to end the year...

Happy New Year everybody!!!

Shyla wrote:

Fascinating, thank you hsuhs.

Thank you, Shyla I was afraid it'd read like sleep-inducing & nonsense, or both.

ilica wrote:

Hsuhs, you have very... complicated hobby. It's still New Years Eve here, so I don't feel in form enough to analyze this , but it sounds interesting.

Thank you, ilica I'm hoping someone with a similar hobby chimes in to suggest a better way of understanding / analyzing the PCS.

ilica wrote:

Morozombie at the end of the year ~~ http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-last-postof-2012.html#more

Yes!!! Dai's earth-shattering performance has finally convinced him/her!
...a perfect way to end the year...

Happy New Year everybody!!!

Ah another lovely post from Morozombie, thank you for the link

FS no commentary ver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TwjZhIwac

I am still overwhelmed by the performance.

Thank you Shae-lynne and Thank you Technical caller at nationals~!
(I think the TC helped Daisuke perform the FS at nationals.)


And Happy New Year everybody~!

Special Guest - Stephane Lambiel, MOI 2012 ~~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQEHQZ3oZS0

fosse wrote:

Thank you Technical caller at nationals~!
(I think the TC helped Daisuke perform the FS at nationals.)

You think? I am still closer to kill, than to thank, him/her.

Quote :

You think? I am still closer to kill, than to thank, him/her.

Me, too.

But I guessed what Daisuke most needed was motivation after winning long waited GPF title, the TC gave him the motivation after SP. It was funny, was't it?

The performance and the audience & skating fans & media's reations said everything.

And Why judges didn't give Daisuke PCS100
Yes, 96 points were huge but compared others..umm..his pcs under mark, either.
at least they gave him above 99points.

You may be right, fosse, with a higher SP score, Dai might not have been motivated enough.
I still cannot believe what he delivered, two quads (thank you TC ), two 3As, 3+3...

fosse wrote:

And Why judges didn't give Daisuke PCS100

Don't be too greedy. Can you imagine the screams "even Patrick Chan doesn't have 10s in SS", "and what about Transitions"?
But 99 would be nice

hsuhs wrote:

The differences in PE and CH in free skate don't translate into differences in fs program component scores.

Which may mean that in JN men FS, PE and CH scores were possibly treated / scored differently than the other 3 Components

So, basically you are saying they lowballed PE and CH, the criteria which our Dai is good at, and which the audience appreciate the most.

ilica wrote:

Special Guest - Stephane Lambiel, MOI 2012 ~~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQEHQZ3oZS0

Thank you ilica. Beautifully skated program. Did you notice he did only one jump. The thing is with Stephane
he does not need a lot of jumps in his programs because his skating, artistry and choreography is first rate.

fosse wrote:

FS no commentary ver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1TwjZhIwac

I am still overwhelmed by the performance.

Thank you Shae-lynne and Thank you Technical caller at nationals~!
(I think the TC helped Daisuke perform the FS at nationals.)


And Happy New Year everybody~!

Thank you Fosse. I agree about Dai's performance I have watched it so many times now and it is nice to have a version with no commentary. Yay!

let`s talk wrote:

So, basically you are saying they lowballed PE and CH, the criteria which our Dai is good at, and which the audience appreciate the most.

Hard to tell what exactly happened there.
Daisuke had the highest (of the entire group) PE and CH marks, those definitely contributed to his top PCSscore.

But if we look at some other skaters scores:
http://www.jsfresults.com/National/2012-2013/fs_e/national/data0105.htm

we see, for instance, that:

Oda and Mura had exact same PCS, while Mura's PE and CH marks (8.45 and 8.40) came out higher than Oda's (PE 8.30 and CH 8.35). Kawahara scored an overall higher, than Hattori's, PCS, with a lower, than Hattori, CH score. Nakamura's PE score (7.80) is higher than Machida's (7.65), but his PCS isn't. Etc etc.

The same kind of 'inconsistency' is present in the scoring of the other 3 components as well, yet they end up making a difference in the overall PCScores, while PE and CH do not.

(My findings for non-factored (i.e. not multiplied by 2) FS PCS are the same as for the factored ones I posted earlier).

It can be argued that someone with weak skating skills can still have a beautiful complex choreo, or someone who lacks transitions, is able to produce a strong performance. All that seems possible. But how come there are no issues with the SP scores? The judges are the same in both programs.

Another possible argument might be that PE and CH are rather 'vague' components. But so is IN.

So I don't know what to make out of this.

hsuhs wrote:

The differences in PE and CH in free skate don't translate into differences in fs program component scores.

Which may mean that in JN men FS, PE and CH scores were possibly treated / scored differently than the other 3 Components

Maybe this means that only PE and CH were actually judged?
The rest of the components are somehow fixed, "this skater is a 7.5 points SS skater, he has 7.2 worthy TR, and his IN is on 7.6 level (since PChan has become the best "interpretor" it's no longer easy to say what "Interpretation" means, so better to be careful )
The only components the judges felt free to evaluate were those two, "I liked this Choreography, and I loved this Performance".
But because they were only a little anomalies in the fixed patterns, they didn't effect the total PCS score.
SS, TR, IN on the other hand, as parts of the pattern, were more reflected in total score.

The anomaly didn't occur in the Short Program because usually it is scored more cautiously. The judges don't let their impressions take over the fixed opinions.

That's my interpretation. I'm sure no one can see much sense in it.

Shyla wrote:

Beautifully skated program. Did you notice he did only one jump. The thing is with Stephane
he does not need a lot of jumps in his programs because his skating, artistry and choreography is first rate.

So true!

ilica wrote:

Maybe this means that only PE and CH were actually judged?
The rest of the components are somehow fixed, "this skater is a 7.5 points SS skater, he has 7.2 worthy TR, and his IN is on 7.6 level (since PChan has become the best "interpretor" it's no longer easy to say what "Interpretation" means, so better to be careful )
The only components the judges felt free to evaluate were those two, "I liked this Choreography, and I loved this Performance".
But because they were only a little anomalies in the fixed patterns, they didn't effect the total PCS score.
SS, TR, IN on the other hand, as parts of the pattern, were more reflected in total score.

The anomaly didn't occur in the Short Program because usually it is scored more cautiously. The judges don't let their impressions take over the fixed opinions.

That's my interpretation. I'm sure no one can see much sense in it.

I think I do, ilica. You mean, the 5 components are divided in 2 groups. The first group is used to 'place' the skaters, the second one is used to exercise the freedom of expression.