The pep rally to the Worlds

According to the sponichi news, the pep rally was held for Daisuke and Nobunari to the Worlds at Kansai University in Japan on Jan. 12th, 2010.
Takahashi said, "In order to get points in spins, we have a plan to change some parts of program." And also he was talking about his programs, "I could not perform them perfectly yet, but I still have a time to practice a lot until upcoming worlds and I'll do the best."
Oda said "During this season, I got a second on the podium four times, so I'll do the best for getting a gold medal for the worlds."

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2011/01/12/kiji/K20110112000036170.html
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/other/110112/oth1101121847010-n1.htm

Daisuke and Nobunari's pics
http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2011/01/12/gazo/G20110112000036300.html
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/110112/oth1101121847010-p1.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/110112/oth1101121847010-p2.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/110112/oth1101121847010-p3.htm

Thanks for the info Leode! I wonder what kind of changes he's going to make since I'm still new to the figure skating rules I don't quite understand how the judges decide the levels of the spin.
By the way, does anybody know if Daisuke is still injured?

Here's the vid of the pep rally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyOK8KXaccA

Yeah, rule about the spin is so difficult.
I saw some instances that Dai's spin was recorded as FUSP, instead of FLsp.
Is that the reason why he got lower level?


Can anybody explain to me?
He also lost the valuable point source due to Choreo step, so I have a little concern about that too.

I hate to read complicated stuff.
So just my thought - your position in spin needs to be difficult, there must be at least 8 times in one position+2 times (?) in another position in comb.spin to get level 4. Also worthy is edge changing between positions & high speed.
That`s why Patrick& Taka received level 4, even I saw their spins are mostly worth for level 4.
Leode, thank you for pics.
Nobu is my secret love.

Thanks, Lil.

It is already complicated. I may go to ISU site and take a peak at official rule.
Yeah, Dai really needs points from spin, considering Chan hits mostly in the mid 80's in PCS, he can not loose any valuable points in TES.

In addition, so far Chan, Kozuka's falls this season garnered high points, because tech said those jumps were rotated fully in the air. Dai, stayed on his feet when he tried 4 f in nationals, but he got only few points, because it was Ur or downgrade. What a bullshit rule!!!
And those E marks on luts as well as flip?

Am I the only one to suspect that ISU is scheming to let chan win, no matter what?

Genki wrote:

Am I the only one to suspect that ISU is scheming to let chan win, no matter what?

I'm sure you're not the only one, but I'm definitely not one of them.

Daisuke's losing valuable points on the spins and I don't see what Patrick Chan has to do with that. Dai & team just have to get their heads around the rules and follow them. Whether they're good or not, the rules are there for everyone to follow and they're not totally impossible to understand. If other skaters manage to get all level 4 spins (or at the very least level 3), I don't see why Daisuke couldn't do the same.

As far as jumps are concerned, I think the changes in the rules (increasing the base value of the 3A and quads, underrotations vs downgrades) should actually benefit Daisuke more than most other skaters because his 3A is very consistent, he can try 2 different kinds of quads and he's often very tight on the 2nd jump of his 3-3 combos (and a < this year is so much better than a < last year!).

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that Dai & team are planning to fix some of the issues, they really have to.

I went to the ISU website to look at the scoring criteria and got a headache from trying to figure it out! Haha

TwisterSister, nice avatar!

haselq, welcome to forum. It`s nice to see someone from Mexico. Figure skating is not so popular in your country, right?

MissC, actually, I`m highly suspicious about Chan. Because something of his scores esp. PCS were ridicilous.

I can not understand, why did ISU left second St.seq. only with base value, level 1, and as long as I remember in all 3 spins in FS you can get level 4?
I`m not fan of spins, even performed by Lambiel.
And some skaters do spin in that awful position like compasses.

I guess problem with getting level 4 is Dai`s condition, not rules.
But anyway, if his jumps will be flawless, I think there will be no big problem with spins.
I also hope for clean quad.
Full rotation in the air. And then you can fall.
Then ISU should give more than 1 point deduction for fall.
Because in other case you can fall 4 times in FS and still get good score. And what about impression?

Lil wrote:

MissC, actually, I`m highly suspicious about Chan. Because something of his scores esp. PCS were ridicilous.

Well, some people also say that Dai's PCS are sometimes way too high, for instance for his LP at GPF...

Lil wrote:

I can not understand, why did ISU left second St.seq. only with base value, level 1, and as long as I remember in all 3 spins in FS you can get level 4?

But Patrick isn't bad at steps either! At the >Torino Worlds<, last competition before the change, Dai got level 4 + 1.80 GOE (5.70) on the 2nd step sequence, while Patrick got... level 4 + 1.80 GOE (5.70) on his 2nd step sequence!! So the change in the rule doesn't make ANY difference in that case.

And Takahiko got all levels 4 on his spins for the LP at >the GPF<.

Lil wrote:

I guess problem with getting level 4 is Dai`s condition, not rules.

I don't know. If for example Dai wants to keep trying that flying layback spin which obviously doesn't bring him many points, I'm not sure if his condition has anything to do with it... As I said already, whether they're good or not, whether you like them or not, the rules are there for everybody to follow.

Don't get me wrong. IMO Dai is the best skater competing at the moment (and maybe ever) and Patrick, no matter how talented, doesn't even come close. But right now Patrick is being smarter at following the rules and making sure he gets as many points as possible (Takahiko's pretty good at that, too).

Lil thank you! No figure skating is not really popular in my country it's all about crappy soccer I want to move to Canada or Russia lol

TwisterSister I did the same thing too and I got more confused lol. One thing I didn't like is that they removed a step sequence from the SP, but oh well like MissC says the rules are there for everybody to follow

I just hope that Dai stays healthy and recovers from the injury he had

[/quote]IMO Dai is the best skater competing at the moment (and maybe ever) and Patrick, no matter how talented, doesn't even come close.

Quote :

Yeap, very true. But you can say that just on this forum without being hit by a storm!!

MissC, actually, I`m highly suspicious about Chan. Because something of his scores esp. PCS were ridicilous.
I can not understand, why did ISU left second St.seq. only with base value, level 1, and as long as I remember in all 3 spins in FS you can get level 4?[quote]

Exactly. Dai is a wonderful all around skater,but maybe the spin is his weakest element.
This rule seems to go against Dai a lot to me

Also, I would like to see his artistic expression reflected much more in P/E or Interpretation or choreograph.Technically top guys are so close, but after that, it is Dai who is head and shoulder above the rest in terms of reaching out to audience and grabbing their hearts.

How come Chan can score 87 at gpf just by staying on his feet? Does not make any sense to me.

MissC wrote:

Well, some people also say that Dai's PCS are sometimes way too high, for instance for his LP at GPF...

But Patrick isn't bad at steps either!

As I said already, whether they're good or not, whether you like them or not, the rules are there for everybody to follow.

Dai`s PCS at GPF was 81, roughly 81/2/5=8.1, which is not high.

I`ve never said Patrick is bad at st.seq.
My question is why ISU didn`t left one of 3 spin only with base value.
I think Dai has tech.consultants. I doubt they are doom.

At GPF in SP Dai`s first flying layback spin was counted as flying upright spin 3 level with base value 2.40.
Also he didn’t do permitted change of foot with at least 6+6 rotation on each foot.
Nobu got 3.20 for his FCsp level 4 (flying camel spin, I guess. I don’t remember his program)

For his CSSp Dai got level 3. Though he did permitted 1 change of foot with 8+10 rot. in each sit position, I guess he lost level because his spins` position was not tight.

For last spin CCoSp (comb.spin) he also got level 3.
He changed foot after camel spin and then did 5 rotations in sit position (I rewatch his program again & again but I counted only 5. There must be 6 rotations in each basic position between change of foot. But he did 3 in camel spin & 3 in variation of camel spin).
With GOE things every point is important.
That’s amateur’s opinion of mine.
Also I remember Patrick spins were executed with higher speed. I might be wrong, just my post-impression.
For his CCoSp4 Patrick got: 3.50+0.93 for GOE.
Dai for his CCoSp3: 3+0.71 for GOE.
4.43-3.71= 0.72 points.

As for jumps in FS: 8 jumps + GOE. A lot of chances.
Also they mostly do 3-2-2 comb. jump, Dai did 3-2.
And for example 3A.
In Dai`s FS:
3A in first half of program - base value 8.50.
If he did 3A perfectly, he might receive + 3 points as positive GOE (8.5+3=11.5), if not (shaky landing/ hand touch/fall, ) – 3 points as negative GOE (8.5- 3=5.5 & possible deduction – 1, so 5.5-1=4.5). See?
11.5 or 4.5.
Big difference in 7 points!
That’s why Patrick said: “Figure skating is the most exact sport.”
Price of mistake is very high.
Done with my conjectures.
please, check vid.selection thread I`d like to cheer up everyone.

[quote="Lil"]TwisterSister, nice avatar!

Thanks Lil! Great analysis and breakdown of the points in the previous reply!

I think what a lot of us react to is Daisuke's musical interpretation. He is a few years older than Patrick, therefore a few years more emotionally mature, therefore likely able to relate to the music better and emote better.

Nothing against Patrick, I think he's a wonderful skater! I compare it to when I was musician in high school versus a musician in college. I understood the music better in college, I listened to the music better, I tried to put emotions into it (i.e. with skating: getting the audience into it, performing, skating WITH the music) Where in high school, it was all about playing the right notes at the right time (i.e. with skating: hitting the jumps, spins, getting points, etc.) Daisuke's musicality developed over time and Patricks probably will too.

Just my opinion!

If Daisuke wants to win the Worlds he has to change his spins to take more points and he has to recover his quad. Today I checked the results from Canadian Nationals. Well, Chan did 2 quads in his LP http://results.skatecanada.ca/2010-2011/2011CDNS/dc2.pdf
If Chan skates so clean at Worlds too it will be very hard to beat him...

I don`t care about title anymore.
After all, Dai is forever in the history of Figure skating as first Japanese male champion.
When I saw 100 champions list, first Hinomaru was at Daisuke`s name.
It will never be changed or forgotten.
Patrick is young & rather healthy & strong.
And we all know that Dai is skating with screw in his knee.
All that injures, that he had, all consequences.
He`s already done miracle by returning to top level after injury, & he was first to do so.
Remember his words?
"I don`t want to be catch up by marks, I want audience to enjoy my performance".
I wish him to express his sense of music & enjoy his skate.
Let new skaters to do their best.