2009 Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final

Thank you, everyone!! I enjoyed all your posts!! It's really nice we can share our feeling each other here in DTFF.

I thought of a looooot of things after I saw his FP tonight.

There was something wrong with his skating shoes?? He collapsed mentally?? Too eager to win?? Again it was a stamina issue??
A lot of questions but we won't know the truth until he tell it by himself.
Hopefully he learned something from this competition and he will be able to enjoy his skating, feeling the joy of skating , in coming JNC as he said at the beginning of this season.

I'll introduce one of my hypothesises tonight.
He worked hard on "eye" after SC and as a result he earned two Lv4 spins and two Lv3 step sequences. But at the same time, unfortunately didn't have enough time to practice "La Strada". The lack of the amount of the practice made him lose confidence. How is it?


I went to the arena only yesterday.
Dai-chan was wonderful last night. But, I hesitate to say this after we know the overall result...., to my eyes he seemed to skate very cautiously. Perhaps it's because my seat wasn't good and I was so nervous that I couldn't get myself into his performance.
When I came back home and saw his performance on TV, he looked very very intense and emotional. So I might be wrong.
Anyway, what amazed me seeing his skating live was the quality of his skating.
Dai-chan has definitely improved it and was the best quality skater throughout the competition including ice dance!! (Of course I'm totally biased. )

Evan was really great. I thought he sold his performance most among the skaters, though his steps were easier than Dai-chan's. V/M was breathtakingly beautiful!!
I stayed the arena until Jr. Men medal ceremony started. Yuzuru looked very happy! He waved his bouquet widely during the winning run. Very charming.

So, it was not a bad dream after all... I was so baffled watching the live stream, and after waking up this morning, the reality started sinking in.

Sabse wrote:

And I really want to see a clean "La Strada" at least once - I love that program!

I totally feel the same way, Sabse. Dai has been sharing his once-in-a-lifetime rollercoaster ride, and we are all with him enjoying the thrills & shrieks every minute of it!

oops sorry - the quote is from Artemis, but I second your view Sabse!

hsuhs wrote:

What worries me the most is that time is ticking away. The Olys are only 2 months away.

I feel just the same as you. The real cometition which is left for him is probably ONLY JNC before the olympics but it seems he need more experieces to control his pressure. (I don't know about 4CC...)
It's a pity that the time is limited while he is working so hard...

MissC wrote:

Now let's see how he does at Japanese Nationals, but maybe he should start consider going to 4CC...

You might be right.... He needs more competions as I wrote above. But, oh I don't know! Can he peak in the Olympics after participating in 4CC?

swandie wrote:

Strategically, it would be so much better for Dai to forget the quad and focus on a clean program. The quadless winner has become a norm in men's skating and I hope Dai sees he can win without it.

I don't think he can forget the quad. He said before (I'm sorry I don't remember his correct words.) "If I fail on the quad (in the olympics) my life will change but it doesn't mean my life will ends." and "I will do a quad in the olympics, so why not should I do it?"

hsuhs wrote:

I went one more time through this season's protocols, and it looks like Daisuke hasn't landed a clean/ ratified 3+3 combo in LP so far. And as much as I love quads, and Daisuke's quads in particular, I'd say 3+3, plus another 2 combos come first, and if that goes well, sure, why not go for a quad in another competition?

You are right except SC, hsuhs. I think you well know about it, in SC he couldn't do it in order to avoid zayak. But he need to complete a full set of his combos. I'm still wondering 3F+3T in FP would be the better solution for him.....

miyu wrote:

You are right except SC, hsuhs. I think you well know about it, in SC he couldn't do it in order to avoid zayak. But he need to complete a full set of his combos. I'm still wondering 3F+3T in FP would be the better solution for him.....

Oh yes, miyu, you're right about SC His first jump was 3T, that made adding a 3T to either 3A or 3Lz pointless, with 2 3A's and 2 3Lz's in the program.

Oh, I have to go to bed..... It's 4:10am in Japan and I have to work tomorrow......

But an idea hit me.
Can't Dai-chan do the CCoSp4 of SP in FP, either? I think some skaters do the same spins in both of SP and FP. Dai-chan's CCoSp4 this season is really good.

hsuhs wrote:

But it seems, Daisuke wants to win on his own terms, that is, with the strongest possible jump content. Which is great and shows a true champion's character.

That’s one of the reason I admire him so much. But he needed more than two month to get stable his 3A. There are still 2 month to go before Olympics and I’m not sure is it enough to get his 4T stable too? I really doubt about that because like you said, hsuhs, he is only human, not a superman. He needs rest. He can’t train 25 hours per day....

hsuhs wrote:

I went one more time through this season's protocols, and it looks like Daisuke hasn't landed a clean/ ratified 3+3 combo in LP so far. And as much as I love quads, and Daisuke's quads in particular, I'd say 3+3, plus another 2 combos come first, and if that goes well, sure, why not go for a quad in another competition?

I had the same thought. It really would be better for him to make strong his combination. It will be great if he has 2 or 3 combos 3+3. And with nowadays judging system sometimes it’s better to play it safe. That’s why I don’t think there will be many skaters in Vancouver who will try to do a quad.

miyu wrote:

Can't Dai-chan do the CCoSp4 of SP in FP, either? I think some skaters do the same spins in both of SP and FP. Dai-chan's CCoSp4 this season is really good.

Good question . I think he can. And Dai's CCoSp is really beautiful.

miyu wrote:

I'll introduce one of my hypothesises tonight.
He worked hard on "eye" after SC and as a result he earned two Lv4 spins and two Lv3 step sequences. But at the same time, unfortunately didn't have enough time to practice "La Strada". The lack of the amount of the practice made him lose confidence. How is it?

That was probably an issue as well... He did say that after Skate Canada, he worked with Kenji Miyamoto on Eye to tweak some parts (probably to make sure both step sequenecs were level 3 and some other things). And as well saw, that work obviously paid off. But he said repeatedly after the LP that he lacked practice, so maybe he really didn't have much time to practice the LP in the past two weeks. Also, before the competition started he said he was really tired from Skate Canada and didn't have enough time to get over the tiredness or practice enough. All of these things, combined with the added pressure of being in first and wanting to win, probably contributed to what happened out there last night.

Anyway, the best thing he can take away from this experience, I think, is that now that he remembers what it's like to completely blank out, he won't let it happen again. He said this happened to him in the LP at the Torino Olympics -- his mind completely went blank and he was even forgetting his choreography. In the past few years, I don't think he's had a performance where he was as entirely lost as he was yesterday, so hopefully it won't happen again.

MissC wrote:

Now let's see how he does at Japanese Nationals, but maybe he should start consider going to 4CC...

I think there's a big dilemma here. He does need more competition experience, but at the same time, the competitions take away from his training time, which he also really needs. 4CC is in Korea this year, so not too far way from Japan, but nonetheless if he goes it'll take out a week of his training time. Also, I'm afraid that if he goes to 4CC and does well there, the pressure will be too much for the Olympics and he won't do so well there.

peepsrule wrote:

Dai has been sharing his once-in-a-lifetime rollercoaster ride, and we are all with him enjoying the thrills & shrieks every minute of it!

With Daisuke, it's really all-or-nothing. There are no in-betweens. But because of the low points, the high points are even more amazing. So I really hope he can rebound from this and becoming stronger from it. In the meantime, my seatbelt will be firmly strapped in and I will be enjoying the ride as much as possible.

HI, DTFF members!!
Thank you for sharing with your thought about Daisuke!!
I'm relieved Daisuke didn't take the result seriously.

高橋 ４回転転倒もサバサバ５位
http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2009/12/06/0002563205.shtml

Takahashi does not take his fall on the quad too hard.

Daisuke says "After I fall on the quad, my mind went blank." And he mistook some spins at end of program. They were no count for the points. And he lost a ticket for Olympic Games. But, Daisuke added "I had no intention to avoid a quad. I don't think I need to use secure way for Grand Prix of Final." About Nobunari Oda as a representative for Olympics, "Congratulation on him, I will show great performance at Nationals for getting a ticket for Vancouver."

I saw on TV that Daisuke hold Nobunari's hands and said "Congratulation!" to him with a smile after the competition. It's very nice to see that!!

I believe in Daisuke that he's doing the right thing if he has a intention to do the quad for Olympic Games. Takeshi Honda has always been said "Never jump the quad without trying to do it at the competitions."

And congratulation for representing of Japan, Miki and Nobunari!!

Calliope wrote:

miyu wrote:

I'll introduce one of my hypothesises tonight.
He worked hard on "eye" after SC and as a result he earned two Lv4 spins and two Lv3 step sequences. But at the same time, unfortunately didn't have enough time to practice "La Strada". The lack of the amount of the practice made him lose confidence. How is it?

That was probably an issue as well... He did say that after Skate Canada, he worked with Kenji Miyamoto on Eye to tweak some parts (probably to make sure both step sequences were level 3 and some other things). And as well saw, that work obviously paid off.

miyu, you were there!! I agree with you and Calliope. I thought he didn't take so much time to practice "La Strada" after the Skate Canada. But it's good progress that it did work so well for the short program. He showed nice performance as "eye".

Calliope wrote:

peepsrule wrote:

Dai has been sharing his once-in-a-lifetime rollercoaster ride, and we are all with him enjoying the thrills & shrieks every minute of it!

With Daisuke, it's really all-or-nothing. There are no in-betweens. But because of the low points, the high points are even more amazing. So I really hope he can rebound from this and becoming stronger from it. In the meantime, my seatbelt will be firmly strapped in and I will be enjoying the ride as much as possible.

Yes!! All we are riding a Daisuke's roller coaster now!! Since I've became one of his fans, sometimes I felt like the same thing. However, I think he is a one of great skaters and he is gifted being deeply moved everyone as he performs. I found there are a big difference between TES 53.25 and PCS 82.40 this time.

2009 Grand Prix of Final Results
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/index.htm

Men - Short Program
Result Details

Pl. Name Nation TSS= TES+ PCS+ SS TR PE CH IN Ded.- StN.
1 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN 89.95 48.30 41.65 8.35 8.00 8.50 8.35 8.45 0.00 #3
2 Evan LYSACEK USA 89.85 48.20 41.65 8.25 8.05 8.45 8.40 8.50 0.00 #5
3 Nobunari ODA JPN 87.65 47.80 39.85 8.15 7.75 8.05 8.00 7.90 0.00 #6
4 Johnny WEIR USA 84.60 45.60 39.00 7.75 7.35 8.00 7.90 8.00 0.00 #2 5 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 76.65 39.30 38.35 7.70 7.40 7.65 7.80 7.80 1.00 #4
6 Tomas VERNER CZE 70.17 33.22 36.95 7.45 7.25 7.30 7.45 7.50 0.00 #1

Men - Free Skating
Result Details

Pl. Name Nation TSS= TES+ PCS+ SS TR PE CH IN Ded.- StN.
1 Evan LYSACEK USA 159.60 75.60 84.00 8.40 8.10 8.50 8.55 8.45 0.00 #5
2 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 158.73 82.13 77.60 7.75 7.60 7.75 7.65 8.05 1.00 #2
3 Nobunari ODA JPN 155.71 77.71 78.00 8.05 7.30 8.00 7.85 7.80 0.00 #4
4 Johnny WEIR USA 152.75 77.25 75.50 7.70 7.20 7.70 7.45 7.70 0.00 #3
5 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN 134.65 53.25 82.40 8.45 7.90 8.05 8.30 8.50 1.00 #6
6 Tomas VERNER CZE 122.15 52.15 71.00 7.25 6.85 6.95 7.35 7.10 1.00 #1

Men
Result

FPl. Name Nation Points SP FS
1 Evan LYSACEK US 249.45 2 1
2 Nobunari ODA JPN 243.36 3 3
3 Johnny WEIR USA 237.35 4 4
4 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 235.38 5 2
5 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN 224.60 1 5
6 Tomas VERNER CZE 192.32 6 6

Congratulation, medalists!!
And I wish you good luck for Nationals, Daisuke!!

Hi Guys:
I just saw his performance on TV. I feel very sad thinking how he is feeling now.

My love for Dai's skaing will never die no matter how he skates, but I really want him to be much more tough mentally.

He really needs therapist. There are lot of ways to train athletes for the peak performance. Please JSF, take it seriously.

Just finished watching Daisuke's gala number. He is allowed to skate there because he represents the hosting country. Quite an honor, IMO. Yes, it's only a show, but still!

Daisuke, again, did 3A as his 3rd jump (I think, he does that in gala's for a purpose), and fell, again. His another two triples were rock solid! His skate looked a bit uninspired to me today (I don't mind, I've seen this number being skated beautifully before. I understand).

---------------------------------------------------

Genki wrote:

He really needs therapist. There are lot of ways to train athletes for the peak performance. Please JSF, take it seriously.

We had discussions on this a year or 2 ago on this board, Genki. Someone quoted Daisuke's interview where he stated, IIRC, he didn't believe in psychology and thought seeing a shrink wasn't a Japanese way to solve one's problems. Or something along those lines.

Nobody can force anyone to go see a psychologist. It won't work that way and won't help (I know you know that as a professional, Genki).

Also just agreeing to give it a try won't work either. A person must believe in it wholeheartedly, must want it to work, must be willing to give it a lot of time, commitment and effort. Do you see that happening in the coming two months? I don't. Besides, a course on mental skills training should have been started 1/2 year ago for it to work, now it's too late for that, I'm afraid.

What's also very important, not everybody is willing to allow a therapist / psychologist / psychiatrist to 'interfere' with his or her life, some simply don't like the idea. There's nothing wrong with that, and their wish should be respected. The majority of people don't even want to seek any help unless their problems become too great to handle.

I just finished watching the exhibition too. He fell on the 3A again, I'm starting to think it's part of the choreography. I wonder why he attempts it from a straight entry, he never does it that way in competition. Also, he stumbled a little bit during the steps... He must be tired.

In the finale, he did a 3F (I think?) but overrotated and stumbled out of it weirdly. I wonder if he was trying to go for a quad?? The flip is his money jump, so if he was just trying to do a triple I don't think he would mess up on it like that.

At the very end, Daisuke almost took Johnny's skate guards. Then he sneezed really loudly and apologized. It was a funny ending!

I just back to hotel from the link and now watching this Gala at TV. It's really nice show!! I wasn't expected to see Daisuke again at exhibition. At the opening, Daisuke was so fine and smiled. And he bumped into the flower girls and he seemed to say very sorry to the girl. Miki was laughing at him. It's very funny.

At exhibition program "Luv Letter", he laughed at the comments, "This is love letter from Daisuke to you!" from the announcer. I think he looked a little bit tired, but he jumped high airly 3F and 3Lz. And he fell on the 3A again. It's very unusual to entry 3A from the straight way as Calliope wrote. In his program, I felt he looked to get angry with himself a little bit and he stumbled at the steps after the fall on the 3A. At this moment, he seemed to change from a fairy of powder snow or petals to a human as if he had a distracting thoughts.

Calliope wrote:

In the finale, he did a 3F (I think?) but overrotated and stumbled out of it weirdly. I wonder if he was trying to go for a quad??

I think he was trying to do 4F.

Here are news and pics for the exhibition.

Takahashi aims to Olympic Games with the quad
http://mainichi.jp/enta/sports/general/news/20091207k0000m050070000c.html
http://www.jiji.com/jc/zc?key=%b9%e2%b6%b6&k=200912/2009120600130
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/other/091206/oth0912061942033-n1.htm

Daisuke says "I won't do this for Olympic Games, but I tried to jump 4F." he added about his free program, "I think it's very hard to win without the quad at Vancouver. That's why I did 4T in my free program."

Daisuke's pics
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/091206/oth0912061942033-p18.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/091206/oth0912061942033-p20.htm
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/photos/sports/other/091206/oth0912061942033-p21.htm

Anyway, I'm really glad to see his smile again!!
Hoping to take a rest for a while, Daisuke. See you at Nationals in Osaka!!

Am I reading that first article wrong, or does he say that he wants to do 4F in the future (as in, after the Olympics)?? If that's the case, I guess he's seriously considering continuing after Vancouver now?

Anyway, I guess that's that. He's not giving up the quad, not now, not ever. He doesn't just want to win a medal at the Olympics, he's said before that he wants to become a skater who everyone will remember and who future generations will want to be like, and in his mind that includes doing quads. It might be a terrible decision strategically and completely blow up in his face, but I have to respect his tenacity and commitment to his ideal. I only hope that he doesn't overdo it and injure himself again because that would be too terrible.

On another subject, I watched some of the Universal Sports coverage of the SPs, and I was really amused when they showed Daisuke's reaction to Johnny's skate. He looked visibly annoyed/pissed off! The commentators mentioned that he was probably not pleased with the great reaction Johnny was getting. He did say after the SP that he wanted to make the audience even more excited after Johnny, so it probably set off the competitve streak in him. (On the flip side, Jeremy and Yuka looked completely dumbstruck/horrified after Daisuke's skate... )

Also, I rewatched the LP and it wasn't quite as bad as I thought it was originally. I said I thought he looked lost before, but maybe not really lost, just extremely unfocused/forgetful during the elements. He did manage to stay in character the whole way through. I thought the PCS was too high at first, but despite the mistakes the presentation overall wasn't too bad.

Please look at Daisuke's 4F!!

Grand Prix Final 2009 Exhibition Finale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TGbtTfwAoY

I haven't had time to write very much this weekend but I just wanted to thank you all for your wonderful and insightful posts. I really enjoyed reading them all!

Thank you so much LEODE and MIYU for your great reports from the arena. It is always really good to read first hand reports!

Thank you for all the videos and articles and translations - you all make this forum the best for us non-Japanese speaking Dai-fans!!

I watched the 4F - and !!! I am pretty sure he will stay for at least another season since Worlds is in Nagano in 2011. I hope he does, because I plan on going!

Yes, we are all on the roller coaster and Daisuke decides how the trip is going to be. I am sure he wants the most fun and enjoyable ride for both himself and all of us!

Hi everyone! I just watched Dai's skate on TV. It wasn't as horrible as I thought it would be but it was clear that he wasn't focused. His brain was abducted by aliens or something! Anyway, after watching it and reading all the interview quotes (thanks so much, Leode, miyu, and anyone else who contributed news), I think it's a matter of practice. It definitely showed that he put a lot of time into perfecting "eye" but not enough on La Strada.

I love the roller coaster analogy that's been used here in this thread. It's definitely a crazy ride being a fan of Daisuke's! The low points are tremendous but the high points are even more so. I know he'll never give up the quad but I can't help but worry that he's becoming too focused on it. Ultimately, all I can do is believe he knows what he's doing and support him.

After Evan was interviewed by NBC, he walked by Daisuke. Instead of ignoring him, Daisuke shook his hand and congratulated him. I was happy to see this because it's further proof that Dai's a really nice guy. Even in his disappointment, he still takes time to congratulate a competitor. It's not just the skating that makes me a fan of Daisuke; it's his personality and demeanor as well.

Hi Everyone!

Thank you for nice reports.

Here's what Scott Hamilton said about Dai's spin.
" It seems that he makes up spins as he goes on."
Wow, yes, That's right. Dai forgot about it.!

He also mentioned that Dai's mistakes are,"uncharacteristic."
Indeed He is always nice about Dai's skating quality. He often says," Extraordinarily." I completely agree!

That's the reason why I am so much of Fan of Daisuke.
He is the real artist and he is the real dancer.
World's best no matter how other elements go.

Hushs:

I did not know Daisuke does not believe in therapy.
Too bad. There are very effective ways to change people harmful inner-thoughts and irrational beliefs nowadays.

Case in point,”When I missed quads, I got tense, thinking I can not make any more mistakes." If Dai was trained by therapist, his thought should be," I missed it, but it is ok. I can skate the rest perfectly., Look what Jeremy just did. If he can do it, I can too."
This takes practice but it really works.

I know, well, you can take a horse to a river, but can not make it drink water.

I believe that Dai really does not know what therapy is.
Apparently,what Morozov did for him was exactly what I was talking about. It was called CBT, Morozov successfully changed Dai's irrational belief such as," I am not good enough. I do not deserve it." Was that what Dai said before himself?

He also needs progressive relaxation too. Well, I am supposed to get into my profession too deeply here.

Anyway, I will loot for Daisuke with you guys and always wish him the very best.

Thank you everyone, for the links and your comments!!
Especially the vid of the EX finale. Wow! He really attempted 4F!!

Calliope wrote:

I was really amused when they showed Daisuke's reaction to Johnny's skate. He looked visibly annoyed/pissed off! The commentators mentioned that he was probably not pleased with the great reaction Johnny was getting.

I wanna see his "pissed off" face!

Calliope wrote:

At the very end, Daisuke almost took Johnny's skate guards. Then he sneezed really loudly and apologized. It was a funny ending!

His sneeze!! I have to say it was very ojisan(old man)'s way to sneeze. Be careful, Dai-chan! You are only 23 yo!!

Calliope wrote:

Am I reading that first article wrong, or does he say that he wants to do 4F in the future (as in, after the Olympics)?? If that's the case, I guess he's seriously considering continuing after Vancouver now?

Well, it could be. But we can't see what he is considering exactly from such a shor comment.



As for 4F, it sounds a bit more serious by reading this article, I think.

http://vancouver2010.nikkansports.com/figure/news/p-sp-tp0-20091207-573448.html
During the morning practice on the final day (EX day), Dai-chan attemped 4T four times and 4F nine times.
He said "I'm good at flip originally. I think I don't need to stick with toe-loop and I practiced it in anticipation of the future. " In the meeting with coach Nagamitsu in the night after FP, she said to him "Don't set your limit." and he decided to practice the jump.
Coach Nagamitsu said "He almost landed the jump today. The rotation was beautiful."

And according this article,
http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/091207/spm0912070505003-n2.htm
Now Dai-chan practices 4A SECRETLY. ( ) Yes, I remember he did it in order to make 3A secure when he worked with Morozov.

And I read an article that said Dai-chan changed his a boot/boots to new one/ones. Sorry I couldn't find the article now. But it seems it/they will be OK until JNC.

Hi, everyone. I haven’t posted in a long time (I’ve become a lurker). I just want to say a huge to thanks to everyone for all your news, translations, videos, and posts. You guys are incredible. Reading everyone's kind and positive messages have helped me a lot to deal with the ups and downs of Dai’s comeback so far. It’s been tough as a fan watching him struggle since Worlds 2008 with the difficult coaching change, the injury, and now the challenge to get back in form. This skating season has been so much better for me than last year though because he's back competing and I know he’s still fighting.

Dai is such a special skater and such a nice guy. I really wish that things would become easier/better for him soon. When the times comes when he is both physically and mentally ready (at 100%) level to compete, I believe that we’ll be in for something quite special. Until then, it’s really nice to have all of you along on this “rollercoaster ride” as some of you have described.

Hi, UMgal! How have you been??

UMgal wrote:

I haven’t posted in a long time (I’ve become a lurker).

Never mind!!

UMgal wrote:

When the times comes when he is both physically and mentally ready (at 100%) level to compete, I believe that we’ll be in for something quite special.Until then, it’s really nice to have all of you along on this “rollercoaster ride” as some of you have described.